Handan Tufan – Mizgin Tabu/JINHA

AMED – Women serve as vehicles of the nation-state system, according to Professor Nadje Al-Ali of the School of Oriental and African Studies. Because of this, she said “the women’s issue is more important than the national issue and it needs to be solved prior to it.”

Professor Nadje Al-Ali is an expert in Women’s and Gender Studies in the Middle East and an academic at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS). Nadje has been conducting studies in feminist movements for 20 years. She is now in Diyarbakır to investigate women’s hopes for peace in the region. Nadje, who has focused more on the women’s movements in Egypt and Iraqi Kurdistan, is now studying the Kurdish women’s movement in Turkey and Rojava and how it has affected peace. Nadje spoke with JINHA about her work.

‘Social issues can’t be solved without solving women’s issues’

Nadje said that when we look at the examples of Iraq and Egypt, we can observe that these countries make solving the national issue a priority.

“The women’s issue is seen as a secondary issue because of the national issue. Especially in Egypt’s movement, the national issue was emphasized ,” said Nadje. “This situation cannot help to solve the women’s issue. The women’s issue is more important than the national issue and it needs to be solved prior to it. Solving a social or political issue can be quite hard without solving the women’s issue in society. So I disagree that the concept of the political needs to be prioritized.

“I’m aware that the Kurdish women’s movement has a different structure. It has a different, feminine organization,” said Nadje. “I believe that the progression in women’s rights is as much a priority as the struggle for national identity. Actually, the progression in women’s rights has priority.”

‘When states gives women rights, they serve their own interests’

The women’s movements in Iraq, Turkey and Tunisia have similarities, according to Nadje. “Women’s rights there have a structure shaped by the state. In the example of Iraq in the 70s, when Saddam first appeared, we can see that there was a leader who was trying to create a modern image,” said Nadje. “We can see the similarities with the Shah’s regime, and with Tunisia, as well. The state gives rights to serve its own interests. Atatürk is similar.

“This is not always a bad thing. But if you don’t analyze this with society, it can cause deterioration and oppression after a while. The state becoming a regime is a bad thing. The problem is how we prevent using women as objects,” said Nadje.

‘The nation-state uses women’

Nadje argued that women are used as mediators in nation-state system. “There is no right that the nation-state system gives women,” said Nadje. “In fact, they see women as a procedure used in a bureaucratic system. Of course, this situation seriously effects their rights. How can we rescue women from the state system?

“Rights, which appear to be given, may be taken back suddenly,” said Nadje. However, she argued that there are not only negative examples. “For example, when we look at Egypt, Palestine and Iraq, we can see serious women’s movements. Young men especially have changed there. Now, young men struggle with women for women’s rights in the squares.”

‘The Kurdish women’s movement contains many new elements’

Nadje has now conducted field work to understand the Kurdish women’s movement in Northern Kurdistan (in Turkey).

“How is the fact that there is equality provided between women and men and equality on the level of leadership reflected in society? How is it reflected in daily life?” asked Nadje. “These changes, which were made only on the visible level in upper classes, are important. But the more important thing is that these changes find a place in society. We are here to observe this.”

Nadje noted that the Kurdish women’s movement is different from others in the world. “Certainly the Kurdish women’s movement has some new elements, but how it will be in the future?” said Nadje. “There is a counterattack now. How does the state’s oppression effect the movement?”

‘We’re speaking while gunshots ring out’

Nadje mentioned that peace does not just mean stopping gunshots. “When you think about this especially from women’s perspective, it means stopping the violence against women,” said Nadje. “We are here to understand women’s position, or investigate what peace means and how we can secure social transformation. But we didn’t expect an atmosphere like this. When we started this project, there was a quiet atmosphere here; now, we’re holding this interview while hearing gunshots.”

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